Lindsay Saker Northcliff
Hi Folks,
As I needed to post some letters and needed a little more flexibility than available on blogger I have registered www.vwservicestinks.co.za. The site should be up today...
Here are the last two emails I sent to Volkswagen... anything new will be posted on www.vwservicestinks.co.za
--------------------------
To: 'mdcust@vwsa.co.za', 'sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za'; 'dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za'; 'vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za'; 'cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za'
Date: 25 June 2003
Dear Mr. Maergner,
Thank you for your letter. It is a beautiful example of corporate diplomacy... it must be a relief to wash your hands of the matter.
In response I would simply say you have not honoured your commitment to deliver on the promise your company makes to it's customers:
'At Volkswagen we don't just sell you a car and leave you hanging: we believe in offering you the best after-sales service possible.'
Lindsay Saker did not offer me the best after-sales service possible, the offered me the worst I have ever seen. Your agent displays a total disregard for customer service and that disregard has impacted me severely. The effective warranty on my vehicle has been reduced, I have an accident damaged vehicle, I am financially impacted for repairs that I should not be responsible for and I have wasted countless hours corresponding with a completely unresponsive dealer and manufacturer.
You state that it is difficult to comment on events that could have transpired at the dealer with regard to my starter motor. True, who could know what happened - but why do I not get the benefit of the doubt in light of the fact that Lindsay Saker have done nothing to lend them credibility in any matter concerning my vehicle? While your staff state that they 'understand my position completely' you obviously don't, why is that?
Be that as it may, Volkswagen have shown themselves to be unable to communicate with me as a customer or to treat my complaint with any urgency and I have no doubt that you will stand by your decision not to assist me further.
That leaves me with no choice but to pay the repair costs and collect my vehicle. It also leaves me with no choice but to continue to seek redress in any public forum I can. I will maintain my web site www.vwservicestinks.co.za permanently. I will attract attention to it in any way I can. I will make sure it is a focus point for what I have found to be a considerable groundswell of unhappiness over Volkswagen after sales service, specifically concerning Lindsay Saker.
The fact that you have allowed the situation to reach this point is disappointing but not altogether unexpected. Your actions have not proven that you 'value my loyal custom', don't be ridiculous - that has to be the most banal statement I have ever read. If I ever was loyal, I'm not now and I don't believe you value any of your customers and certainly not me.
Regards,
Dave Wylie
--------------------
To: 'mdcust@vwsa.co.za', 'sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za'; 'dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za'; 'vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za'; 'cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za'
Date: 26 June 2003
Dear Mr. Maergner,
Thank you once again for your response. You request the disclosure of all relevant facts concerning any publication of negative publicity I might undertake. Let me be clear then. I intend the following:
1) To register (completed) and maintain the website www.vwservicestinks.co.za. To ensure its prominence on local and international search engines.
2) To publish on this website the full details of my experience with the Lindsay Saker Northcliff Service Department, the Dealer Principal Neville Forssman, the Service Manager Theuns Botha, the Service Advisor Andre Du Toit, Lindsay Saker Group MD Hans Holster and his assistant Carin Van Dyk, the Volkswagen Helpdesk, the Volkswagen web site and yourself the Volkswagen MD and your office. I intend to publish all correspondence and communication between myself and these parties. I intend to publish any replies I have received (or details of the absence thereof) including your letters. I intend to document a timeline describing in detail what happened, how long it took for Lindsay Saker and Volkswagen to answer email (if at all) and to repair my car.
I intend to document the inconvenience, the poor service, the total disregard for myself as a VW customer displayed by your agent. I intend to publish the facts regarding the failures on my car while at Lindsay Saker and the refusal by Volkswagen and Lindsay Saker to take responsibility for these repairs. I will provide a facility for any visitor to add his or her stories regarding service received from a Volkswagen agent. I will document your office's indication to me that independent VW agents are not your responsibility and that you do not have the power to intervene. I will contrast this statement with VW's promise to ensure the 'best after sales service'.
I will actively publicise my web site by any means available to me including letters/emails to publications, radio stations and web sites. I intend to print business cards with the web site details and distribute them to all Volkswagen owners I encounter. If the funds are available I intend to distribute leaflets outside Lindsay Saker Northcliff.
I will grant you the courtesy of right of reply at any time, I will publish any response to any item on my web site you might care to send me. What I will not do is honour your request to provide you with contact details of any publications or web sites I intend to approach - do your own homework - your right to any regard to your interests from myself was abdicated by Volkswagen a long time ago.
I have requested the following from VW and your agent which you have refused:
1) The extension of my warranty by the time period my car was at Lindsay Saker.
2) A letter from Lindsay Saker acknowledging responsibility for any problems that may arise as a result of the accident.
3) The return of my car in the condition that it was in on the 8 May 2003.
I intend to document your refusal to comply with these items (or your agent's action of simply ignoring some of these requests).
It will be entertaining to watch yourselves defend your actions and service. I think perhaps your 'fair and equitable' solution may not be perceived as such in all quarters... let the chips fall where they may.
So ends our relationship... see you on the web.
If you have any interest, please visit www.vwservicestinks.co.za - it's under construction now, but not for long.
Dave Wylie
----------------------
----------------
To: mdcust@vwsa.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date 24 June 2003
This email posted to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com at 11:45 24 June 2003
Dear Mr. Maergner,
First of all my sincere apologies for spelling your name incorrectly. Amusingly enough 'Magna' was the spelling I received from your very own helpdesk!
As there is every indication that this matter will drag on for some time I have registered the domain www.vwservicestinks.co.za with UUNET DNS Administration. My blogspot is getting too unwieldy for the casual visitor to get the facts quickly and easily. My blogspot will remain of course until I have posted some decent content to the new web site, hopefully by Monday.
In line with this move I offer all of you the right of reply to my accusations of abominable service and poor communication and my demands for the free repair of all faults that occurred while Lindsay Saker had the vehicle. I will post all replies I have received from VW and Lindsay Saker so far (precious few).
Also, as this matter may receive some publicity in future and in order to ensure that my company is not embarrassed in any way all future email from myself will be from my personal email account, ....@.... Please update your records.
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------------
Had a word with VW again - they're still looking into it... sigh.
---------------
To: mdcust@vwsa.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 23 June 2003
This email posted to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com at 11:00 23 June 2003
Dear Hans Magna,
I have just spoken to Richard Dickson about the matter. He tells me he is busy talking to various parties and he is waiting to speak to the Dealer Principal of Lindsay Saker Northcliff about it. After that he said he would go to the Group MD, Hans Holster... I unfortunately had to burst his bubble at this point as I was informed this morning that the Group MD has no interest in the matter.
We did discuss my issue, the fact that I was not prepared to accept being dragged down into the technicalities of why the starter motor and indicators failed, it is a complete non-issue. There is a much simpler principle involved here: my car went in without these faults, Lindsay Saker crashed it and kept it for five weeks, then they returned it to me with these faults. One need look no further than that, I do not know if a crazed mechanic tried to drive the car to the panel beater using the starter motor alone or if the Service Manager attacked it with a crowbar to get back at me for all the irritation... I don't know and I don't care.
At least Richard did say that he understood my position completely - that is an encouraging start.
Regards,
David Wylie
-----------------
Day 47
It looks like this will be a lengthy battle. Lindsay Saker Head Office have washed their hands of the matter and VW seem to be wondering what on earth to do. Of course I expect no relief from Lindsay Saker Northcliff...
-----------------
To: mdcust@vwsa.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 23 June 2003
This email posted to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com at 10:00 23 June 2003.
Dear Hans Magna,
Just to keep you updated I have just spoken to Carin van Dyk, Lindsay Saker Group MD Hans Holster's PA. I asked her if Lindsay Saker Head Office were still involved in my complaint, she said they weren't and were leaving it up to the dealership and that I should deal only with Lindsay Saker Northcliff. I find it interesting that the Group MD feels he has nothing to do with the abject lack of service at one of his branches... go figure. It has been a battle to make sense of Lindsay Saker's decisions during the last six weeks and this one is no different...
Of course Carin did not have the courtesy to phone me or email me to let me know this interesting news, I had to phone her. I spoke to Carin last on the 18th, six days ago at which point she promised to look into the matter and get back to me. She didn't of course and joins the illustrious group that are trying to avoid all contact with me.
So that leaves me with Volkswagen South Africa - the company that promises:
'At Volkswagen we don't just sell you a car and leave you hanging: we believe in offering you the best after-sales service possible.'
I would in the meantime like to know Lindsay Saker's position on my car - will they sell it to defray costs? Will they start charging me storage fees?
If I do not get a response from them on these points I will assume no costs will be levied nor will my car be sold for the duration of what promises to be a lengthy battle. I bet I get my first email from Lindsay Saker in response to these questions.
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------------
I sent this page link to Radio 702 this morning, hope it gets some publicity!
---------------
To: mdcust@vwsa.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 23 June 2003
Hi Folks,
This email posted to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com at 08:10, 23 June 2003. Sent vwservicestinks.blogspot.com link to comment@702.co.za this morning.
Top of the morning to you all...
Lindsay Saker still have my Golf and they have taken back the loan car. Let's briefly outline the current situation.
1) I am not prepared to pay the R1600.00 outstanding for the following reasons:
a) These faults occurred while Lindsay Saker had my car for five weeks. They were not reported in the service on the 8 May 2003.
b) As they occurred while Lindsay Saker had the vehicle they are Lindsay Saker's responsibility. It does not matter whether Lindsay Saker feel the accident did not cause these faults, or that they did no work on these items. I was not driving the car at the time, I do not know what Lindsay Saker did to the car during this period but whatever they did I did not receive the car back in it's original condition. Is it reasonable to expect me to pay for these items?
2) It is obvious that Lindsay Saker have failed me and know nothing about customer service, (vwservicestinks.blogspot.com is a complete record of just how little they know) but why do I feel that VW have failed me?:
The VW website states the following:
'At Volkswagen we don't just sell you a car and leave you hanging: we believe in offering you the best after-sales service possible. So, if you want to find your closest Dealer, need tips on looking after your car or are even looking to sell your car, you're at the right place.'
Now how does this gel with VW's statement on Friday that there is nothing they can do as Lindsay Saker are an independent company and VW cannot interfere? It doesn't, obviously.
I had no choice when servicing my car, I had to take it to a VW agent. This leaves VW with the responsibility of protecting me when faced with a company like Lindsay Saker. Lindsay Saker have done the following over the last six weeks:
a) Treated me with a complete lack of respect. This includes not keeping me updated, not returning email and not phoning me.
b) Provided terrible service. This includes the original service which they did not complete in the promised time. The accident in my car. Failing to make sure repairs were carried out correctly, failing to provide promised documentation, demanding the loan car back before I was happy with the accident repairs, providing a filthy loan car.
c) Refusing to repair faults free of charge that occurred while the car was in their possession.
Now does this sound like 'the best after-sales service possible'? I expect VW to take some responsibility for allowing this customer service nightmare called Lindsay Saker access to my vehicle and assist me in resolving this matter.
Regards,
David Wylie
---------------------
This is simply bizarre... I checked back with Richard Dickson at VW and he had the sad news that yes indeed the decision is that I must pay for the repairs and return the loan car. Lindsay Saker are independant and VW cannot interfere in the decision.
I blew my top, we had a huge barney on the phone. I did get him to admit that he would be upset if he was in my position and that VW did have a responsibility to protect their customers who had no choice but to use VW agents for services.
He said he would get back to me... I'm waiting.
I guess I'll have to give the loan car back though, Lindsay Saker may well report it stolen if I don't.
In case you're wondering why I'm making such a fuss over these repairs here's my position.
1) The faults occured while Lindsay Saker had the car - this is fact, they serviced it and reported no faults on the starter motor or indicator system. They then crashed it and kept it for five weeks.
2) They claim neither the starter motor or indicator failure could have been caused by the accident. Who cares? The fact is the problems started while they had the car - it's not my problem to provide proof of what happened. It could have been a crazed mechanic, the MD's cat, a ball of spit from a passing alien... it's simply not my problem and I don't care.
Why do I get this and they don't?
-----------------------
---------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 20 June 2003
I'm psychic!!!
Andre just phoned me and demanded the loan car back, it has been sold it seems. He also said I should collect my car. I said I was happy to but I'm not paying for the repairs. He said I had to, Theuns Botha said I must.... sigh.
I told him to check with Theuns again and get back to me... he said he would. Let's see what happens...
Regards,
David Wylie
------------------
------------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 20 June 2003
Hi Folks,
I feel I have wronged Richard... he was after all meeting frantically with everyone trying to sort this out. I'm told that the resolution of my problem now hangs on a decision taken by the Lindsay Saker Financial Manager a Mr Fabio I think it is and the Service Manager Theuns Botha in a meeting that may take place this afternoon.
I understand completely - the huge decision involving R1600.00 is very important and needs intense focus. Perhaps while they meet they might also put some focus on the total lack of customer service that exists at their company. It is not nearly as important to them I'm sure but just maybe it will come up.
Soooo.... here I wait on a Friday afternoon for a decision that would take most companies about 3 seconds to make, the thought process would for most service managers go something like this:
1) We stuffed this up in every way possible.
2) This customer has many valid complaints we should recognise and resolve immediately.
3) As an urgent action we must address the quality of our service so this never happens again.
4) We need to make this go away as close to instantly as is humanly possible.
5) This guy is tenacious, vocal, articulate and above all, right. He could have a serious impact on our customer relations if he has not already.
6) This mess has cost us a fortune in car rental, man hours and frustration.
7) R1600.00 is a small price to pay to make this customer happy and to stop us looking like idiots in public.
8) Give Mr. Wylie his car... repaired, properly, no questions asked.
Lindsay Saker does not work in this rational way of course and this decision may well drag on into next week.
I will not be suprised if they demand payment for the repairs, the immediate return of the loan car and threaten legal action if I do not take my web page down, this is the nature of the beast.
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------------
-------------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 20 June 2003
I don't even know who I am addressing these emails to anymore, who is actually running with this? Put your hand up if you are...
Neville Forssman - Dealer Principal? He has not emailed me since 05/06 and hasn't phoned me since 13/05 so I guess it isn't him.
Theuns Botha - Service Manger? He has never emailed me or phoned me in six weeks. Does he exist? Maybe, but he certainly doesn't care....
Andre Du Toit - Service Advisor? He phones me, he argues with me, he gives me bad news, but as he admits he has no authority I guess it isn't him.
Carin Van Dyk - PA to Group MD? Phoned me two days ago. Seemed helpful, hasn't phoned back. Guess not then...
Hans Holster - Group MD? Nothing from him at all. Guess his PA speaks for him... or doesn't as the case might be...
Yolande Bekker - VW Customer Services? No calls, intermittent email. Sounded helpful but accomplished nothing. Gave up on me early in the game...
Hans Magna - VW MD? No calls, no email. Supposedly didn't get any email from me. I guess if I had to choose between contacting an unhappy customer or delegating the job I'd delegate, so no hard feelings there.
Richard Dickson - VW MD Line? I had hopes here, everything seemed promising. Man, if I was dealing with a complaint to my MD that had already resulted in entries on two customer service sites, a dedicated web site and a ton of email I'd sure as hell phone the customer asap... but maybe not...
Richard told me there would be a meeting this morning at 11, not sure if it happened but a call would have been nice... disappointed by Richard so soon....
Guess I'll have to use that grotty little Citi Golf this weekend (unless LS demand it back). Damn, I wish I'd taken up that offer of a clean, loan car... I should have known there was no way my car would be ready at the promised time... I mean, am I stupid?
Andre told me three days on Tuesday, Carin told me one day on Wednesday. I guess they were referring to 'best we can do' repair time not to customer satisfaction time. I mean Andre is the person who told me my car was ready when the bumper was 10 degrees out of position, the starter motor was broken, the indicators were broken and the car rattled like a go cart. I guess I should really start being a little less naive...
----------------------------------
I realised a little earlier that readers might not know what I actually want out of all this - a trip to Mauritius? A 1:50 scale gold plated scale model of a VW Jetta? A week with Hans Magna on his luxury yacht? No... simple things really:
1) A letter of apology from Neville Forssman, Dealer Principle Lindsay Saker Northcliff and whoever the invisible Service Manager at Lindsay Saker is. Hahahahahahaha, just kidding... I don't care if these two gentleman issue an apology on a gold plated framed certificate. The only letter I would accept from them is the offer of a chance to throw darts at them from a VW loan car as they scamper naked down Jan Smuts avenue. Keep your apologies, you'll need them for the next couple of hundred people you treat like scum at the Lindsay Saker Service department.
2) A letter stating that Lindsay Saker had an accident in my car, what the damages entailed, a guarantee on the repairs and an acknowledgement of responsibility to cover any problems that can be reasonably assumed to have been caused by the accident whenever such problems might arise.
3) My Golf IV in EXACTLY the same condition as when it went in to Lindsay Saker 43 days ago. All repairs done perfectly, no outstanding issues.
4) The extension of my warranty by 43 days and counting.
Reasonable? Yes of course.... do I expect these things from them... no, but I'm hopeful.
Day 43
I never did get hold of the MD - not too suprised about that. I did get hold of a guy on the MD Line who seemed to be keen to help, Richard Dickson. I had a scary couple of moments when my blog refused to load into edit earlier but it's working now!
------------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 20 June 2003
Greetings silent ones...
Well my quest met with some success... chatted to Nolan on the VW customer line who indicated that it was about as difficult as getting through to the Pope when I asked how to get hold of Hans Magna MD - I respect that, the man has things to do. But Nolan did put me on to the MD line number where I got hold of Richard Dickson!
Now this gent knows the basics of customer service - he apologised profusely on behalf of himself, on behalf of the MD and on behalf of VW. He explained that they were experiencing terrible problems with their email system which was why the MD had not been able to see my email or respond. He expressed a keen desire to resolve all my issues. He told me that he had been appointed to deal with this matter personally. He was informed and courteous.
Amazing really. He used simple techniques to make me feel important and cared for and to give me the expectation of action. He made no promises but he did exactly what everyone else failed to do - took some interest.
I like this guy... he may not deliver, the jury is out, but he definitely impressed.
I'm having some hassles posting to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com - I would suspect a VW plot to stop me publishing but if they can't handle their own email system I doubt they can hack blogger.com :)
In any case it has not been updated this morning...
Regards,
David Wylie
----------------
Well I received a feedback request from Hellopeter the customer service site... I was not complimentary as you can imagine.
---------------------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 20 June 2003
How do you all think I answered this questionnaire from Hellopeter?
No phone calls from Carin Van Dyk or Hans Holster... I guess they joined the 'let's avoid Dave' crew... damn, I had such high hopes...
So my plan for today is to try and phone the MD of Volkswagen South Africa - he has been ignoring my email to mdcust but maybe he just ain't getting them. I'm sure I will have to fight my way through a flock of secretaries and PAs but I'm up for the fight...
vwservicestinks.blogspot.com
Regards,
David Wylie
Subject: Hellopeter.com - Please answer our follow-up questionnaire
Hello Dave
You wrote a comment 36 hours ago on hellopeter.com about LINDSAY SAKER NORTHCLIFF. Please indicate how your comment was handled by clicking on a face below -
Over The Moon Quite Impressed Indifferent Not Impressed Utterly Disgusted
I hope that you've been contacted, and that your comment has been acknowledged (if the company is a subscriber). Non-subscribing companies are unable to contact you. Only subscribing companies - COMPANIES WHO CARE - are provided with your contact details.. After clicking on the link please fill in the Follow Up questionnaire relating to your experience with LINDSAY SAKER NORTHCLIFF.
Regards
Peter Cheales
Hellopeter.com
----------------------
It never bloody ends... now they claim the items that broke while they had the car are not their problem...
-----------------------
To: cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 19 June 2003
Hi Folks,
Just off the phone to Andre at Lindsay Saker - here we go again.
So the panelbeater work is complete but here's the crunch:
1) Starter motor not working - not Lindsay Saker's problem. Fact that it failed while they had it for five weeks, not their problem. Fact that they did not notice it during the service, not their problem. Fact that it failed under their care, fact that it failed after a serious accident they are responsible for, not their problem.
2) Indicator's not working - not Lindsay Saker's problem. Fact that it failed while they had it for five weeks, not their problem. Fact that they did not notice it during the service, not their problem. Fact that it failed under their care, fact that it failed after a serious accident they are responsible for which involved the smashing and replacing of the right rear indicator, not their problem.
It's a warranty issue they say and of course V bloody W will only pay 50% of the claim. I have to pay R1662.00 out of my pocket for problems that suddenly started while Lindsay Saker had my car and after they had an accident with it...
Fix the car folks, give it back to me in the condition it was in before you serviced then crashed it. I don't give a rat's ass whether you worked on the starter motor or not - it wasn't like that before, I'm not paying for it now.
Aren't you embarrassed phoning me to ask me for money? How can you possibly have the gall after all you've done to suggest it's not your problem to resolve? I'm willing to advise you as to how you should have gone about this because you are so obviously rotten at it:
'Mr. Wylie this is Andre from Lindsay Saker here. I would like to apologise for terrible state of the loan car I gave you on Tuesday, such service is unacceptable. I would also like to apologise for your treatment at our branch from the beginning of this situation. We pride ourselves in our service and are trying to resolve all your issues urgently. Your car has been to the panelbeater and has been repaired.
The other items you reported to us have also been repaired. While we feel that these items may not have been caused by the accident or by anything we are responsible for we do realise that in light of the fact that we had an accident in your car and the fact that we inconvenienced you for five weeks and are still doing so we will of course repair these items free of charge.
Thank you for your patience Mr. Wylie.'
Give good service a try folks, you may like it...
Email posted to vwservicestinks.blognet.com14:54 19 June 2003
Regards,
David Wylie
----------------------
Shooooooooooooooooooooooowaddywaddy.... I got a call! From Lindsay Saker Group MD Hans Holster's PA Carin. She was polite, helpful, concerned... I told her of my plight... she kicked some butt obviously and even phoned back to tell me they wanted to deliver a clean loan car... wow! I declined though, sounded like too much hassle, I just want my Golf back which will probably be tomorrow the 19th June... post to follow hopefully. I hope Lindsay Saker doesn't do anything to ruin my dance of joy... they certainly have the knack...
Of course VW didn't phone me - I don't think they know how...
Carin phoned me in response to this email I sent today:
--------------------
To: sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, cvandyk@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 18 June 2003
Hey Folks,
Having a web site up, being a member of various mailing lists and working in the hyper-communicative IT industry certainly helps to inform and protect prospective Lindsay Saker and VW customers. Below are the experiences of another unhappy customer out there...
Rest assured - this and any other stories I receive will be posted to vwservicestinks.blogspot.com, as will this email of course.
And please be assured - there is no vindictiveness in my actions here - I am certainly aware that my actions will hardly be a pinprick to the mighty industrial giant that is Volkswagen South Africa or Lindsay Saker for that matter. Your awareness of this fact must be the reason that you are able to ignore my email and treat me like a particularly nasty strain of pond scum.
However, I do consider it a duty to help my fellow consumers make informed choices - and I will do that to the best of my considerable ability.
I have included the PA to Hans Holster (MD Lindsay Saker) in this email, I hope Hans reads the web page. I am performing an experiment to find out how many VW and VW affiliated individuals there are out there who are hoping to ignore me for long enough to make me go away... Hans may of course become a statistic, we'll see.
Wouldn't it have been easier to have treated me with some courtesy and repaired my car properly and timeously? Does it not make sense to resolve this quickly and painlessly? (Dave lets out a long sigh at this point - he is starting to get weary - you may yet win this battle... but I doubt it).
It simply defies belief how much time a company can put into doing a job badly and dealing with all the hassles that result as opposed to doing it right first time. I spend time speaking to people who ask me about my web page... 'how can they do this?' they say, 'what the hell is wrong with these people?' they query in utter disbelief....
I just don't know...
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------------
And this is the email I received from another unhappy VW customer:
---------------------
From: Let's call him Scott - who knows what spam crawler is sneaking through blogger.com lifting email addresses.
Date: 18 June 2003
Dave,
Your not alone here... VW is turning into one of the worst nightmares
ive ever had with a car..
I've had my golf 4 GTI for about +-20 months now.. The car is on 51,238
odd KM's..
The clutch went on +-30000km's, they said it was "drivers driving style"
and refused to replace it under warranty.. So I had no choice but to
fork
Out the 6.5k to get the full clutch kit replaced (either that, or get it
done for 2.5k elsewhere and void the warranty) they said 30,000 is fair
wear and tear on a clutch.. And that they are only designed to last
about 60,000 km's.. Glad to know all their other clients are replacing
their clutches on average every 2 years..?
Strange thing was the clutch plate was completely and totally worn on
one side, but not worn at all on the other side.. But they still decided
that this was drivers fault and no fault whatsoever on their car's
behalf..
The clutch.. Oh the clutch, alas I wish I didn't know about the f***
thing so well. It went AGAIN on 41,000. And it's just gone again ( I had
a REALLY great weekend! ) the only thankful thing I can say is that the
last time they agreed to replace it under warranty.. Not this time.. Now
their insistant that my driving style must be horrendous..
The fact that I get 640km's per tank of fuel (8.1l per 100km avg) is
irrelevant.. And I produced 12 months worth of back petrol slips to back
up my statement is unimportant, since I don't think any of them know how
to read..
And VW's lovely service.. They refuse to even investigate the thing,
they just tell me it's my driving style.. I don't know anyone (not even
a woman) that can completely wipe out 3 clutches in 51,000 km's.. All of
my previous cars went well over 180k without even needing a clutch
replacement.. But they just say "well this is a much more sensitive
hydraulic clutch than those other cars"
So it's cool.. I'm having them fix It one last time, and I'm selling the
goddamned thing. I can only hope the next guy has more luck with it than
I did.
Either that.. Or it's time to make use of the AA's legal team and see if
I can get anywhere with this company.. Because as far as im concerned,
lindsay saker, mc carty, and VW.. Are possibly the worst companies to
deal with on a customer service level that I have ever come across..
To have someone stand there and tell you with a straight face that you
don't know how to drive a car in so many words.. And make it clear that
this is not their problem and they don't give a toss.. Got to give it to
them, they sure know how to make a customer feel valued. One thing is
for sure, noone that I work with will ever buy a VW after the amount of
shit I've had with them :>
-- Scott.
--------------------
---------------------------
To: dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za
Date: 18 June 2003
Hi Folks,
Well , well, well... I feel we all know each other so intimately now! How I wish it were otherwise...
So my car is back at Lindsay Saker - wow! What Olympian service record are you guys trying to break?
The bumper is still not fitted properly, I still have no letter from VW acknowledging the accident, my car now rattles from the rear, the indicators no longer work properly and the starter motor is faulty. I had to collect it though - VW cancelled their loan car to me - it was 'walk' or 'take' buddy.
They did give me another loan car yesterday though. Thanks Lindsay Saker for the dirty little 1.4 Citi you lent me. Thanks for the litter all over the floor and the old McDonalds wrappers stuffed into the console - the attention to detail of your dealership in light of yourselves crashing my car is superb.
Thanks also for only agreeing to allow me a loan car if I signed a form accepting liability for any insurance excess - you crash my car, put me through hell for what is now approaching six weeks but of course you must make sure you don't release that little piece of crap without making sure I know my place - isn't that right? How typical of Lindsay Saker.
In any case I thought I would publish our story for all to see at: vwservicestinks.blogspot.com
There are links to it at www.hellopeter.com (a customer service site) and at www.stopbadservice.co.za (another one) in case anyone misses it. Hope I make sure there are a number of informed customers out there.
Regards,
David Wylie
-----------------
So is it all over? Now on the 18th June 2003? Six weeks later? No.
I did get the car back on 6 June but it wasn't right - not at all!!! The bumper was till not fitted correctly, the starter motor has somehow developed a grating whine when starting the car, the car rattled from the rear, the indicators now worked only intermittently. I still have no letter from VW stating that they caused the damage. But I had to collect it - VW told me I could no longer have the loan car. It was either walk or take the car as it was - they are such caring people hey?
In any case the car went back in to Lindsay Saker yesterday 18 June 2003. Andre told me it would take three days - who knows? They gave me a loan car, dirty, full of litter - papers, old McDonalds wrappers and so on. I had to sign that I was liable for any insurance excess - can you believe it? They crashed my car, they didn't fix it properly but I must take responsibility for excess on the crappy little 1400 they deigned to give me... they just boggle the mind hey?
That's it for now - I'll keep you posted.
Why the blog? I just feel everyone should be aware of companies that deliver service this terrible... if I had known I would rather have taken my car somewhere else, it's as simple as that.
So what happened? Eish... everything, and it was all bad. I took my VW Golf IV in to Lindsay Saker Northcliff for a routine service on 8/5/03. I got it back four weeks later... and it's back again six weeks later!
So here is my original email to Volkswagen (to their emaster link on their web site):
-----------
To: vwemaster@vw.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 09 May 2003
Date:
Hi Folks,
Three issues:
1) Service at VW Northcliff 8/5/03:
VW Northcliff serviced my car yesterday (Golf IV 2000 MWP143GP) and repaired some other minor faults. I have no idea if they performed these services well or not as they had an accident in the vehicle while delivering it to me today (they were delivering it to me due to the rotten service they gave me yesterday). I am still waiting to see how bad the damage is.
But I digress - this email is primarily about service that falls somewhere between incompetence and total disregard for a VW customer. Firstly, I called the branch at 14:00 yesterday to confirm that the car would be ready by 16:30 - yes it would I'm told. So myself and my wife duly arrive only to be given these excuses:
a) They had no oil (THEY HAD NO OIL!!!!!! Wait, please read this again - THEY HAD NO OIL!!!! at a VW service department!!!!) and they had to go and fetch some.
b) They could not get through to the VW warranty department to authorise a repair to the driver window.
This is at 16:30 - no phone call to let me know that I was wasting my time going there, no regard for me at all - just bottom of the barrel, typical, rotten South African service. I was furious, I'm still furious. There is no simpler operation in delivering service then keeping the customer informed, what the hell is wrong with these people. I DO NOT CARE about VW's horrible engine oil logistics problems, their dreadful switchboard, their backlog, how busy they are... I DON"T CARE about the service advisor's mumbled apologies - do your damn job properly and on time, that's what I care about...
So as to issue 1 the following apply:
a) I will never go back, don't send me a fruit basket, or a tastefully arranged hamper of Premium VW cleaning products - I don't even want an apology.
b) I want JUSTICE. Justice to me is the waiving of the entire service bill of some R700 odd rand I think (I have not received the invoice as it is currently sitting in whatever wreck my car has become). Why is this justice you may ask? Simple, VW cost me time and frustration, not in some indirect, nebulous way - directly! They, through complete inattention to detail directly caused me to lose an hour of my day and have a miserable time in peak hour traffic - I want Lindsay Saker to personally acknowledge that they are in my debt to the tune of one car service for not giving a damn about me.
I won't hold my breath though - people who deliver bad service never hold themselves personally accountable for it or for correcting it.
2) The unfortunate accident damage to my precious Golf
What now? Who repairs the damage? What if they don't do it right? What about the affect on the car's resale value? What if something goes wrong with the car in a couple of months - who's problem will it be then? Do I get an extension on my warranty? What's your policy? Do you have a policy? Please put my troubled mind to rest here folks...
3) The 50% reduction in my warranty claim reimbursement.
This one is a laugh a minute! My driver's window collapsed with a nasty thud. Inconvenient but hey, these things happen. I was not aware that this problem is a common one, but as the friendly VW Northcliff service advisor told my wife when she phoned to book it in, 'Oh, a common problem on the Golf'. That's more than a little scary folks...
But here's the crunch. VW will only pay 50% of the claim because I was late for this service and the last one. Hmmm, interesting. I immediately asked if either of these services involved some routine maintenance to the window. Of course it didn't - I knew the answer to that already.
Now I am a reasonable man - one of the pistons gets tangled in the valve head or the gearbox spits out a gear - I haven't serviced the car - sure, I can accept that, cough up my friend. But the window????? Come on folks, be reasonable, realise that while these rules are fun to have around, they're about as relevant to this claim as the instructions for my clock radio. Repair the damn window, take some responsibility and leave the rules to your legal team. You KNOW you owe me one repaired window and that my service has nothing to do with it.
I must add, as a final humorous note, that when I raised the same argument to Henry (I think it was) at VW CWA on 790 5110 he had the following useful little illustration to share with me, 'Say you see a red robot, and you just drive through it but you don't cause an accident. Shouldn't you have stopped anyway?'. I was a little taken aback here, 'what does this have to do with my window' I thought? Can you explain perhaps? It sounds a little like that tree in the forest conundrum... if you drive through a red robot but no-one sees you did you make a noise?
He wasn't finished though, 'Say I never change the oil in my car, I haven't changed the oil in my car for two years by the way', he says (hope he never has a warranty claim), 'So say the engine fails would they do it under warranty?' Now this isn't a tough one and I answer with a confident 'No way'. 'Why?' he asks, 'what does the oil have to do with the engine?'. It was at this point that I considered drowning myself in engine oil just to get away from Henry... I hope this mail gets to someone who hasn't just read 'Who moved my cheese? My customer... and it's payback time!'.
That's it folks - refund my service charge, tell me what you're going to do about my accident damage and repair my window, don't be difficult about it - you know you have an obligation to me, you know I'm being reasonable and that you're not - do anything else and you will just look a little mean, a little bureaucratic, a little unfriendly. That's not what you want is it?
Regards,
David Wylie
-------------
No response to this - the 'no response' theme will be a common one. So I phoned and logged a complaint at their help centre on 12/5. No response again so I popped off my next email (to the ccmngr address I received from the help desk):
--------------
To: vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 13 May 2003
Hi Folks,
I'm not terribly surprised but I have received no response to my email, not from Lindsay Saker, not from the VW web site and not from the VW Customer Care Line... that I suppose is typical of companies that provide poor service.
I am now trying the VW customer complaints manager - I wonder what my odds are of getting a response....
Lindsay Saker have managed the almost impossible task of adding to the poor service they have already provided. After crashing my car (which if they had been delivering at the promised time of 11:30 on Friday morning instead of being predictably late, they may have avoided) they promised me a rental car by 16:00. At 16:00 my 6 months pregnant wife gets a call from VW that she will only receive the car at 18:00 - she is instructed to wait 2 hours at a shopping centre on a Friday night while VW get their act together.
Of course I blew my top - Andre the service advisor eventually went to pick up my wife and bring her home and the rental was delivered there at 18:40. For this I thank him - even though VW was completely at fault and had inconvenienced us yet again I still appreciate his effort - you are a gentleman sir!
Be that as it may, I have still had no feedback on any of my queries and complaints, my car is still at VW with as yet unspecified damage, I am still out of pocket for a dubious warranty decision and a service from hell.
Regards,
David Wylie
---------------
I finally received a response to the email from Yolande at their Customer Services Department:
---------------
From: bekke05@vwsa.co.za
Date: 14 May 2003
Excerpts only (it's boring)
Thank you for your email (yada yada)...Firstly we have to apologise... service excellence is priority... etc etc...
----------------
And another agreeing to reimburse the balance of the warranty to me on 15/05.
There was various emailing back and forth after this to settle how I would get my refund and what was happening to my accident damaged car.
The after a week of absolutely nothing from the dealer on what was happening to my car I blew my top in this email to the dealer:
-----------------
To: dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, bekke05@vwsa.co.za
Date: 22 May 2003
I have not received an email or phone call from Lindsay Saker since last week Tuesday - isn't it bizarre that a company that apologises profusely for it's poor service just keeps on delivering more of the same?
Why am I not being kept informed about the status of the repairs to my car?
Can someone tell me how my refund will be processed?
Yolande: In your mail to me you stated: 'We trust that the above meets with your approval and we will do the
necessary follow-ups to our dealer, until we receive confirmation that your concerns has been addressed.'
What follow-ups have you done? None? Are you even aware that my car is still at Lindsay Saker? Are you aware that they haven't phoned me for ten days to update me on repairs they claimed would take a week?
Regards,
David Wylie
-------------
I then received email back from Yolande apologising that I felt I had been kept in the dark (yeah it must be just a feeling that I had, nothing whatever to do with them) and suggesting that I was not due a refund as I had never paid for any part. I replied as follows:
-------------
To: bekke05@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 22 May 2003
Yolande,
I do not 'feel' I have been kept in the dark, I HAVE been kept in the dark - or is 10 days without a call considered business as usual at VW?
And YES I damn well have paid for the part - Lindsay Saker debited my credit card with 50% of the amount as per your original warranty decision. So I'm due the refund, not them!
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------
I was getting weary now but determined to battle on. After receiving an email again from Yolande (we can see here just how active Lindsay Saker are when it comes to responding to email - they were copied on all my mail) suggesting that they were 'desperately' trying to assist me I launched a sarcastic attack I felt would stir them into action:
---------------
To: bekke05@vwsa.co.z, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za
Date: 27 May 2003
Yes Yolande... I must say the entire experience has left me with the distinct impression that VW are 'desperate' to try and assist me... what a joke...
Of course I have yet to get so much as a call from the dealer in two weeks to update me on the progress of the repairs... I can only assume that in their desperation they have lost my number...
Our last email correspondence was five days ago, and then seven days before that... snappy service indeed! Your decision to leave me out of pocket while Lindsay Saker arranges the warranty refund when they eventually repair my car makes it blindingly clear that you have only my best interests at heart.
Do you take me for an idiot that believes there is a gaggle of VW client service reps rushing around trying to resolve my problem? Nothing VW has done from the start, whether it be your dubious decision to reduce my warranty claim by 50%, your inability to return email, your inability to get back to me on a complaint to your helpdesk and your absolute inability to keep me informed leads me to believe anything but that VW has no interest in me, in my complaint or in my continued custom.
Let me assure you that the only 'desperate' thing about my experience with Lindsay Saker and VW is how desperate I am to get my car back so I never have to deal with either of you again...
Regards,
David Wylie
---------------
It was heartfelt - it had now been three weeks, no-one was bothering to keep me informed! And now - total silence - I must have scared them. So a week later I try again and this time I copied the VW MD 5/6/03:
---------------
To: bekke05@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za
Date: 05 June 2003
Yolande,
I assume you have now chosen to ignore me - that's fine, I guess it's just
too damn tough to handle really unhappy customers. I doubt I will even
notice that VW is no longer frantically trying to resolve the issue, you
have been that ineffective.
Be that as it may I would like to make sure VW has a complete record of my
experience... the whole dismal saga. Settle in for the next installment...
I was told my car was ready on Monday but of course when I went to collect
it on Tuesday the repairs were so badly done I had to leave the car there.
The bumper had been fitted so poorly I could see it from the reception door
a good 20 metres away. Of course Lindsay Saker did not even bother to check
the car before calling me, yet another example of their fine customer
service.
So it's back to the panel beaters again - isn't this fun? It is a month
today that my car went in for its service... who could know I was entering
the twilight zone?
My refund cheque wasn't ready as well - I believe the dealer is waiting for
a cheque from VW. It's no surprise at all that I will be waiting for my
money while VW gets their act together (and you called it a goodwill
gesture... please permit me a little chuckle here...). I would like to
point out though that you stated the following in your email dated 27/05
(your last to me): 'our dealer has advised that the necessary will be done
from their side to refund you as soon as the vehicle returns from the
panelshop'
It didn't happen... thanks.
The letter I requested stating that Lindsay Saker acknowledged that they
had caused damage to the vehicle and what that damage was, was also not
ready.
Of course I do not expect you to take any responsibility for your dealer,
you haven't made any attempt to so far. They are of course your agents,
your sales force, your service arm, the VW face we get to see... but hey,
it really has nothing to do with you does it?
Now here's a suggestion, please take my warranty refund - that huge amount
of R350.00 or so that is so difficult to get to me - and spend it on a big
sign for your customer service department (R350 should get you a bit of
gold plate and a decent frame) - THIS IS WHERE CUSTOMER SERVICE COMES TO
DIE... WELCOME TO THE CRYPT
Regards,
David Wylie
-----------------
Sarcastic, biting - surely now with the MD's involvement I was going to see VW employees scuttling around trying to help me get my car back - ummm, no. I did get an email from the dealer manager, Neville Forssman, on the same day telling me everything was going to be OK - it wasn't. I did reply telling him his excuse for not keeping me informed was just not on. And I replied to Yolande who had emailed me telling me how 'ironic' it all was and how they had to follow procedures and how my file was still open - my replies were not pretty:
-----------------
To: dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, sernort@lsaker.ih.co.za
Date: 06 June 2003
Neville,
With all due respect the fact that you were out of the country should not have had any bearing on how I was kept informed. If your customers are not going to be treated with a decent level of service while you are away either don't go away or find someone who can stand in for you when you are gone. This is not rocket science.
Be that as it may, the last thing I need is to start another debate on the customer service issue. I already have my hands full dealing with the seemingly infinite ability of VW's Customer Services Department to get things wrong.
Let's leave it at this then. I hope to get my car back today, I do not expect to have to deal with your dealership again, heaven help those customers that do.
You have at least been a cheerful and agreeable person to deal with. It hasn't made the slightest bit of difference to the service I have received but I appreciate it nonetheless.
Regards,
David Wylie
---------------
To: bekke05@vwsa.co.za, dlrnort@lsaker.ih.co.za, vwccmgr@vwsa.co.za, mdcust@vwsa.co.za
Date: 06 June 2003
Yolande,
Let me be blunt... the thought that you are keeping my file open scares me. It might mean that I have to deal with the VW Customer Services Department for some time to come. I no longer want to deal with you... I'd rather chew off one of my thumbs. Close my file (please!)... let's not darken each other's doors again.
I would however like to address the following points in your email:
1) No, it is not 'ironic'. It is bad service, it is a lack of attention to detail which is the fundamental characteristic of your department. You promised that it would be ready, it wasn't - no 'irony' involved at all. An apology might have been in order - but who would expect such a gem from VW Customer Services?
2) Yes, you certainly do have certain procedures that a customer might not expect. These include:
a) The no response to a complaint via your web site procedure.
b) The no response to a complaint logged telephonically at your help desk procedure.
c) The don't bother to phone a customer to discuss his complaint procedure.
d) The don't keep the customer informed procedure.
e) The make promises and don't deliver procedure.
What you have Yolande, is an ineffective, insulting excuse for a customer services department. You have a CC Manager who does not lift his lazy little finger to call me or email me. You have an MD who feels the same way. You take your time to return mail, you do not follow up, you do not keep your customer informed, you make excuses and you make goodwill gestures that do not contain any goodwill.
I have never experienced such shoddy service. I am still in a state of shock... and four weeks in a state of shock is just too damn long.
This is my last email on the matter. I expect to collect my car today, I do not expect it to be ready, or properly repaired, or that my cheque will be there, or that the service that took place four weeks ago will have been done well, or that a letter detailing the accident will be waiting for me. However, rest assured I will not bother involving your department to resolve any of these issues.
I would appreciate no further communication from yourself of any kind - it is an irritation I can do without, and quiet frankly it is a considerable amount of work making sure you fully understand just how badly you treat your customers. As you are not paying me the consultant's fee I am certainly due for this work, let us terminate this relationship immediately. No hard feelings, you will never have to deal with me again, I will never buy another VW - we both come out smiling.
Regards,
David Wylie
--------------
Well at least Yolande got one thing right - she never mailed me again - neither did the ccmngr or mdcust addresses at VW. They are a scary company folks - a black hole from which no light can ever escape.
